… because the last time it was discussed on this blog it became very boring and unpleasant.
I believe beautiful creations belong to and should be cherished by all mankind.
I believe destroying sacred monuments wherever they are, to whatever religion, is wrong.
I have no more time for Israeli zealots than for Sikh zealots, Muslim zealots, Hindu zealots, white supremacists, Jehovah’s witnesses or anybody who is sure they are right
I believe in tolerance.
If what the Taliban did was right because it was “their” country, the logic is simple and inescapable.
When Hitler’s Nazis ruled Germany it was “their” country. So homosexuals, gypsies, communists, democrats, Jews, the mentally disabled and anybody who didn’t toe the party line were slaughtered in their millions.
When Lenin and Stalin’s communists ruled Russia it was “their” country. They outdid Hitler by many millions. When Mao’s communists ruled China it was “their” country. They outdid Stalin by countless millions. To this day Buddhists in Tibet and Muslims and Christians all over China are discriminated against.
Following the same twisted logic if a religiously intolerant Evangelical Christian party ever got into power here it would be “their” country.
They would have every right – if temporary possession of power confers that right – to go round blowing up Sikh, Buddhist, Jain and Hindu Temples, Jewish Synagogues and Muslim Mosques.
No doubt if the National Front got into power eventually people whose skin is not quite right would be deported – because it would be “their” country.
The last time this kind of thing happened was under Cromwell. It was relatively minor compared to what I have just been talkimng about. But the results have been with us ever since, in mutilated statues and beautiful stained windows lost forever in churches all over the country.
Let those who like 17th century rules live in places where they apply.
And I believe the following rules introduced by the Taliban when they were in power and being reintroduced in those areas they now control were and are wicked and intolerant and discriminate against a group far more important than any religious, ethnic or political group.
Many of them are called our mothers. Our sisters. Our wives. Our daughters.
1. No women allowed to work outside the home, including female teachers, engineers and most professionals.
2. No women’s activity outside the home unless accompanied by a close male relative.
3. Women not allowed to deal with male shopkeepers.
4. Women not to be treated by male doctors.
5. Women not to study at schools, universities or other educational establishments.
6. Girls’ schools closed down
7. Whipping, beating and abuse of Women not clothed in accordance with Taliban rules
8. Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles.
9. Public stoning of women accused (but not necessarily proven) of having sex outside marriage.
10. Ban on cosmetics. Many women with painted nails had fingers cut off.
11. Women forbidden to talk or touch males who are not close relations
12. Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman’s voice).
13. Ban on women wearing high heels, which would make a sound while walking.
14. Ban on women riding in a taxi unless accompanied by a close male relative.
15. Ban on women on radio, television or at any public gatherings.
16. Ban on women’s pictures in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.
And, 100% vintage Adolf Hitler, non-Muslim minorities required to wear a badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the Muslim population.
And if anyone comes out with any shit that what they say Hitler did was just a fiction, let me just say that I knew people who were in those camps.
I don’t know what triggered your observations on how certain ‘religions’ and ‘ideologies’ can manifest themselves. But they chime closely with my own feelings resulting from what I noted during my time living in the ‘States, South East Asia and Africa – plus considerable international travel in the last few years.
The Irish comedian Dave Allen used to end his shows with the injunction “ your God go with you”. I liked that.
But I do not like the way even simple manifestations of religion have become so sensitive – try saying something other than ‘Happy Holidays’ in PC-riven America at Christmas-time. And see how narrow, self-serving interpretations of the Koran have blighted the lives of so many Muslims.
And don’t get me started on the intolerance and behaviour of ultra-orthodox Hassidic Jews.
I’m surprised though to see your resident Muslim hasn’t popped up to chide you over your statement.
Maybe the destruction of Buddhas of Bamyan by the Taliban is met with approval as, allegedly; they were destroyed as being deemed as contravening Sharia law by a leading Taliban Mullah.
Pass me the sick bag, Alice.
Glenmore
Well, considering you're tired discussing religion, you certainly did that in very succinct way… not. 🙂
Drayton, despite what you write here and despite what you read in the media, and despite what you choose to believe, I know the facts.
If you'd ever been to Saudi Arabia, the centre of Islam, you'd see whether or not all these things you've listed are true.
Yes, like all contries and all religions, you have people who go a little too far, but it is defintely not as you mention.
However, you only have my word for it and who am I against voice of the mega millions media, who you usually would not believe and count on for news.
“I don't count on TV much in that respect.”
If this is the case, you then wouild you believe it when it's referring to other countries?
Note, I said other countries, not religions.
The fact is, when I said it their country to do as they please, what I meant was that, if we are told to toe the line here, then it's hypocrisy to tell others how to live their lives and run their countries.
In this country we are not even allowed to SAY anything in support of Palestinians without fear fo being arrested.
It's illegal to not believe in the holocaust – it's bloody illegal to choose not to believe something?
During the murder spree in Gaza, if any Muslim wanted to go and help them out we would be arrested and thrown in jail and, yet, there were Jews who went to fight for Israel from this very country without any fear from the government.
In this country we, as Muslims, are not even allowed to have a civil court amongst ourselves while others are.
I'm referring to the types of courts which affect no on else.
And, despite what you choose to believe, our women don't feel teh same way as you do about our laws.
Take less than 6 minutes out of yor schedule and wathc this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxXjV3GYR8E.
Don't beleive everything you see or hear.
It's easy to write things in the paper and it's easy to set things up for a short filming to make a group of people look bad.
Look at Hamid Karzai, the puppet placed to lead Afghanistan after the US attacked.
Do you honestly believe the Afghans wanted that?
It's easy to buy greedy people – just look aorund here.
Yes, there are certain things in all countries people in other places will not like.
And there are plenty of laws in this country even the indigenous people don't like.
However, are they going to change those things just because 'someone' believes different?
No.
Know why?
Because there are murders and rapists out there who also believe they are out.
Israelis kill hundres of Palestinians all the time because they beleive it's right.
But that does not make it so.
Look, Drayton, I'm not trying get into a pissing contest with you.
I know who you are and vice versa.
The fact is, all I'm saying is that the media in this country is all about propaganda, and not against Muslims.
Don't beleive everything you see or hear.
Look at what happened with Gaza – they zionists believed the whole world would see the 'truth' as they believe it to be, which is why there was so much medai coverage.
However, the world saw the real truth and flipped against Israel's actions and, as a result, you don't see anything more about Gaza on the news.
That's despite the fact the killing is still going on.
During the televised massacre, a lot of Islamic chairites' accounts in this country were also shut down by zionist owned back without any reason whatsoever.
So, all I'm saying is, take what you see or hear with a pinch of salt.
Tolerance goes both ways.
I meant to say not 'just against Muslims'
Drayton for somebody who knows an awful amount about what makes folks tick – you must do, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to flog the Great Unwashed Public so much 'stuff' – I'm surprised that you don't appear to have cottoned on to the fact that tolerance is the enemy of the priest.
If we all tolerate each other we have no need for the priests to tell us what to hate. Then the priests lose their influence and are seen for what they really are: sad people who only get a kick out of life by feeling superior when they tell the rest of us who to stone this week.
fw
Onya, Drayton. Should be more people prepared to say out loud what they (claim) to believe.
Cheers, John
“Onya, Drayton. Should be more people prepared to say out loud what they (claim) to believe.
Cheers, John”
Really?
Then why is it illegal to 'believe' the holocaust didn't happen?
I may be wrong as I don't know what law you are referring to Rezbi, but I doubt if it prohibits the belief but the expression of the belief.
And do I agree with that?
No, I don't. I believe people are entitled to have and express their opinions in any responsible way. If they are Holocaust deniers it speaks volumes about them, not their opinions. Let us find out who these crackpots and we can form our own opinion about them and their beliefs..
If the Thought Police were operational I would have been locked up decades ago.
Cheers, John
Rezbi is, I think referring to the law in Austria and a few other European countries which were badly affected by World War II where it's illegal to deny the holocaust. It's not, to the best of my knowledge, illegal in the UK.
I'd be interested to see verification of those laws though Drayton – what's the source?
Drayton,
Imagine by John Lennon. A world of peace because there wouldn’t be anything to die for. John was wrong. His song is a song of socialist diatribe.
There are two ways to reign in what people do to other people. It’s called submission.
You submit to a higher power – be that a government or a god or a belief. Man (as in humans – all of us) can only create a government as this higher power and let’s face it, that’s subject to the whims of man – because man created it and the government can be no more powerful or just or pure than its creators.
So moral law, if possible to be created by man, is only as moral as the person. And, if all beliefs are of equal value, then Stalin has as much right to voice his opinion and rule his way as Ghandi had to voice his opinion and live his way.
Drayton, you want moral law without a moral law giver. Which leads to what I attempted to express in the last paragraph.
The question becomes which moral law giver – which God. And you rightly point out that FOLLOWERS of every God have abused their religion, resulting in wars and fighting the world over. That doesn’t make God bad. It simply makes the follower a sinner (what my religion calls someone who misses the mark, the bull-eye of perfection). Many would say “try your best.” Another would say, your best isn’t good enough so let me provide you an example of how to live.
And even that example was murdered for speaking and living truth.
So, Drayton, you want a perfect world when the world didn’t recognize perfection and crucified it.
Not in this life-time or in this world.
As I don’t believe in God I can’t really comment
Perfect.
Then you should read “Waking Up” by Sam Harris, a neuroscientist who also doesn’t believe in God, but has apparently begun to wake up to the kernel of truth around which the crap of organized religion has been built.
Well, maybe not quite correctly expressed, but you’ll get what I mean if you read the book.