My friend Rezbi got a bit excited about the last post, and my response is this.
I like the joke.
I also like Irish jokes, Jewish jokes, Polish jokes, English jokes, Scottish jokes (except for a few in Parliament), Australian jokes – in fact all jokes, not to mention ones about the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is a Welsh joke, and jokes about priests and rabbis.
Catholics and Jews love jokes about priests and rabbis, but do Muslims like jokes about their religion? If not, they should learn to if they plan to hang around here, because in this country we love jokes. And I like it that way. I would like England to remain English, jokes and all.
Like Rezbi, I detest extremists, and they do indeed give you a bad name whatever community you belong to. For instance I think all members of the National Front or whatever it’s called should be shipped to the South Pole.
But although I know that ordinary Muslims detest extremism (because, guess what, I have Muslim friends) the voices of those who think this have been relatively quiet.
But I do not agree with his comment that the government or the authorities have encouraged anti-Muslim sentiment; for the most part they have done exactly the opposite. In any sane country the rabble-rousers who have been allowed to stay and be subsidised as they have here would have been thrown out.
But going back to the joke, those of any background who have had a sense of humour bypass operation may find the atmosphere better in a country where people are more serious. Germany springs to mind. They have had a few extremists there now and then, but you can’t have everything.
Drayton – your joke was making fun of religion and we all do that.
It was like the one about the new man in heaven being told not to make any noise.
‘Why?’
‘Because the people in that room are Catholics and they think they are the only ones here’.
Come to think of it, it’s probably repetition that causes offence. Too many strangers poking fun.
I have a Jewish friend who loves Jewish jokes, Irish friends who love Irish jokes, Catholic friends who love jokes about the Pope, Priests and Nuns. I have Muslim friends and have yet to meet any Muslims who can take a joke about their religion.
Religious jokes are essential because all religions are pretty ridiculous and none more so than my own – I’m a Catholic.
As far as I’m aware Islam is the only religion that issues death threats to people who publish cartoons about it.
And before Rezbi comes back with his usual pro Islamic response (Ive come across him on a number of forums) you only have to look at any Muslim dominated country to see how women and people of non-Muslim faiths are ill treated.
Mike – if you attack a faith as you have just done, you are just picking a fight.
Is that what you want?
What you have described about women happens in lots of countries, not just Muslim ones.
My take on all this is that we in the UK are the owners of the English language – and because of that we love to mess around with it (because owners can). That, I think, is the root of a lot of our ‘humour’.
But someone not of these shores just won’t get it. Try telling a joke like:
“What is brown and sticky?” and they just won’t get it when you tell them:
…. ‘A stick’.
I know because I tried it on Thursday in an Indian restaurant. Of five staff, all good English speakers, only one understood it. And he may have been pretending.
Peter, as far as I’m concerned, Mike is a muppet and doesn’t deserve a reply.
Drayton, I must admit I read your post pretty quick, was on my way out and missed the joke. So apologies there.
As far as the national front go, what have you got against the north pole?
Sorry, rushing again…
South Pole.
Apologies for making three comments in a row, but this just seems so relevant considering kermit’s response:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-steel/article862898.ece?startindex=-1
I know, I know… it’s still not worth replying to him, but this is just too good to let it slide.
And, BTW, of bloody course I’m pro-Islamic… it comes from being a Muslim.
Imagine saying you can’t be pro-England just because you’re English.
Like I said– muppet.
Well done Rezbi. When the truth hurts resort to name calling.
In the UK we have freedom of speech and whatever you think of my opinions I have a right to express them unlike in the majority of Muslim lead countries in this world.
Of course you also have the right to follow your religion and I would defend your right against anyone. However by resorting to name calling you proved my point.
Learn to laugh at yourself and your religion and don’t be so pompous.
Unfortunately, freedom of speech in this society also means the media can make things up and muppets like you swallow every peice of shite they dish out.
You accuse me of name calling yet you chose to come on here and insult me and my religion without any provocation.
I happen to chat with Drayton via email quite frequently, so my comment was more for him, and it was meant to be friendly, although the written word can appear cold.
Furthermore, what’s pompous is people like you thinking only you have a free society just because the government and media here says so.
I’ve lived in those so-called stifled societies and visited others, and the level of freedom there is higher than here, regardless of what you think or what the govt and media says.
It’s called propaganda.
Heck, this is the society where people are constantly going on about the “big brother” culture, and I’m not referring to TV.
And you think this society is free?
And, of course, there are no wife beaters here.
Just google wife beaters and tellme how many are, or even sound like, Muslims.
I’ll bet you the percentage of wife/women beaters are far higher amongst non-Muslims.
Heck, even Ghandi was a wife beater.
But, of course, it’s better propaganda to highlight only those which make us look bad.
Rezbi,
Every time you reply you prove my point. Any opinion that doesn’t square with your own is branded an insult to you and your religion. Your response is name calling and swearing.
By the way if you want to use this pathetic name calling in responses you should try to come up with something a bit better than a puppet from a childrens’ TV programme.
Muppet
Well, this one certainly got one or two people going.
When I have a minute I will try to say something sensible — always hard for me.
I told you so:
Picking a fight.
Rezbi dear boy, did you not know that name calling is the resort of an indefensible argument and of the intellecturally challenged?
All Mike was doing was pointing out that most communities in this country are very able to laugh at themselves, from the Irish to the Jewish communities.
Don’t you understand that having the ability to laugh at ones own people, beliefs etc disarms opponents and shows a high level of social confidence. It would seem that your community is devoid of that confidence or is jihad the only way? If that is the case, there really is not much point in lingering.
Peter
It’s hardly a fight although I’ll happily have a verbal fight with anyone. However when an opponent resorts to name calling rather than landing “punches” it’s more like (as Denis Healey once said of Geoffrey Howe) being worried by a dead sheep.
I don’t know about Rezbi but I’m just having fun whilst stating my point of view.
I must take you up on your comment;
“What you have described about women happens in lots of countries, not just Muslim ones.”
Are you suggesting that this makes it right?
I condemn the mistreatment of women, children and men in any part of the world by any race, religion or government. This discussion, however, is with a Muslim who makes his religion the issue at hand. It is right, therefore to question and criticise the violent culture within Islam and the fact that it is being allowed to manifest itself in my country.
To add balance I have been just as forceful in my condemnation of my own church in it’s handling of the issue of child abuse by priests and nuns over the decades.
No, I’m not suggesting it makes it right.
What I’m saying is that it seems to be the trend that Muslims are continually picked on to highlight these points.
You mention other religions can lugh at themselves, and you include Jews among that, yet all it takes is any comment at all for someone from the Jewish community to shout anti-semitism.
You call that being able to laugh at yourself?
Take a look at any newspaper or news report and you see constant attacks at Muslims.
As far as muppet number 2s (manuel) comment goes, ajoke is a joke, but there’s different ways of saying things.
Here’s a joke, how do Jewish soldiers disarm Palestinians? With a rock.
They just break their arms by bashing them with rocks.
In case you’re wondering where that’s from, it from a documentary where they were filmes actually doing this.
Hope you like that joke.
PS Muppet number 2, you sound so smug.
Oh, and you’re right– I do lack intelligence and am intellectually challenged.
Thank God for that, as it prevents me from thinking too highly of myself and being a smug git.
But you two are still muppets.
Rezbi it’s rude to interrupt. My last post was addressed to Peter.
As you butted in I’ll say this. The reason that Muslims are “picked on” as you so pathetically put it is because they call foul at any minor criticism. You are a prime example.
The reason they attract criticism is because extremism and hatred is preached in certain mosques.
The reason that they are treated with suspicion is that Muslim extremists, not Jews, not Christians, not Hindus, not Seikhs, not Atheists or anyone else blow up innocent people in this country.
The reason that so called moderate Muslims are not respected is because they do nothing to stop the extremists. Whats more people like you are apologists and justify the violent aspects of your religion by citing the actions of others as justification as if that makes it OK.
The name calling that you have indulged in here is a childish and pathetic version of the more serious reactions that are seen throughout the Muslim world whenever anyone dares to criticise any aspect of Islam.
The truth is yours is a backward 7th century cult that has no place in a modern liberal society.
I thought I would share this. It’s a quote from one of the great leaders in the worlds history, Winston Churchill (was he a Muppet Rezbi?)
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property — either as a child, a wife, or a concubine — must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science — the science against which it had vainly struggled — the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”
Rezbi, Muppet number 2 here –
You gave this an example in your 'responce' to me –
“Here's a joke, how do Jewish soldiers disarm Palestinians? With a rock”.
The incident you refere to occured about 12 years ago.But you obviously don't know or choose to ignore, that the platoon commander was a Druze sergeant. The platoon were all court-marshalled & duly sentenced. Compare the steps taken by the IDF here and that of the palestinian authorite at the murder in a police station by a howling blood thirsty Arab mob, of two off-duty soldiers. You guessed it, the authorities did absolutaely nothing.
Where have we seen howling, rage-filled, hatred spewing, blood thirsty Arab & Muslim mobs recently? And Rezbi, this is not a joke!
Mike, that is muppet number 1 to you,rightly suggests that Yvonne Ridley is a classic case of Stockholm Syndrome and you are obviously suffering from Selective Memory Syndrome. Now that could be a joke!!!
This is my last response to you two muppets.
You talk about jokes and how everyone can take it except ‘us Muslims’.
The Hindus are up in arms about the Love Guru right now.
That’s a sense of humour is it?
You say that incident was 12 years ago, but there have been, and continue to be, much worse things the Israeli army are doing to the Palestinians every day.
You choose to ignore that.
The US and UK continue to say their war is not against Islam, while continually killing more and more, both directly and indirectly.
You expect us to forget things because they were “12 years ago” while the holocaust is spoken about, and used as an excuse for the zionists to do whateever they want, decades later.
Even Gordon Brown was exposed as a supporter of zionism, along with his father, on our very on Sky news onlythis week.
You talk about jokes and then you come up with ‘examples’ of Muslims are supposed to have done.
Just like with the WMDs, you talk about things without any proof.
You two sound just like Bush, Blair and Brown clones.
On top of all that, you continue to talk about ‘us’ not being able to take jokes, despite the fact that muppet number 1 came on and made an unprovoked attack against me.
And, you also forget that I actually apologised to Drayton for missing the joke.
Or did you not even bother to read that.
Go stuff yourself and your obvious hatred fo Islam.
You can deny it all you like but your posts betray you… both of you.
And, unlike you I can take a joke.
You just use that as an excuse to attack Muslims.
You come on here trying to sound intelligent and prove otherwise.
If anyone is closed minded and bigotted here it’s you.
i most often like blair’s outfits. i don’t care for the skirt, srawtshiet, and chambray top outfit, it looks too wonky.though, i do like each piece separate. blair is a fashion merchandiser, she has a great eye for pulling things together. the one thing i can’t understand is why she is always being photographed with sunglasses on, come rain or shine. personally i think she needs to lose the sunnies more often in her photos.
I refer you once more to Winston Churchill.
I’m done with you now. Continue to make a complete idiot of yourself if you like.
Please note that intelligent and well written responses don’t have the need for name calling.
“And before Rezbi comes back with his usual pro Islamic response (Ive come across him on a number of forums)”
One more question, a number of forums?
Which ones?
I only remember one forum where I had to defend Islam, again from attack from people who sounded very much like zionists.
If there’s one or two more, maybe I’ve forgotten.
But a number of forums… talking about Islam.
Point them out.
Rezbi, muppet number 2 here…..again.
Zionists? Who said anything about Zionists or Zionism, even though both are laudable in my book. I honestly believe the Jewish people have a right to their ancestral home and don't deserve to live their lives under daily threat of anihilation by blood lusting, rewriters of history, zealot islamists. History is on the Jews side being in that land centuries, nay millenia, before the Arabs. Islam is a new religion compared to the mother Judaism, over 3500 years old. and its offspring Christianity 2008 years old. Islam is a mere 1429 years; just recall what Europe was like for heretics & catholic deviantes in the 1400s. No different to swathes of the Islamic world today.
The most alarming comment you make is that “Even Gordon Brown was exposed as a supporter of zionism, along with his father,…”
Gordon Brown “exposed as a zionist” is a highly prejudicial remark. I didn't know being a zionist was a crime. Enlighten me, since when? Exposed? Brown, love him or not, has never hidden his views on the middle east. So what's the big deal? In case you missed the news whilst blogging blindly away (you know what they say, stop digging when YOU are in a hole), your “exposed zionist” Brown has given the P.A, £30million of our hard earned tax money.
Check this out everyone:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4360655.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/
news/world/middle_east/article4360655.ece
Sorry, the ending chopped off.
“Mike said…
Rezbi it’s rude to interrupt. My last post was addressed to Peter.”
My very first post was to Drayton… that never stopped you butting in.
Maybe you wouldn’t have started all this to-oing and fro-ing if you styed out of it.
If you don’t like it, don;t do it yourself.
And you can’t claim I didn’t name it as you certainly were not on here until you decided to chime in on my post.
Muppet.
Rezbi,
I’ve had great fun getting you to break out of your moderate facade and show your true colours.
I’m fascinated to know why you think that constant name calling adds anything to your arguments.
Is it because your vocabulary is so limited that you have no other way of expressing your anger or frustration?
Is it a childrens puppet fixation coupled with a nervous tick and these muppet interjections are therefore involuntary?
Or is it some crazy idea that the word will cut me to the quick? Maybe I’m missing something and the word muppet is some kind of Muslim insult like pig.
You are truly a troubled individual.
“I’ve had great fun getting you to break out of your moderate facade and show your true colours.”
Who told you I’m moderate? I never did.
I’m a staunch Muslim and that is exactly what helps me to stay in focus. Staunch Islam and extremism are not the same things.
You, on the other hand, have proven that you do actually have something against Islam from the posts you have made while trying to find all sorts of ways to discredit us.
It may not be religious, but you are extreme in your own views.
“I’m fascinated to know why you think that constant name calling adds anything to your arguments. “
Cuz you’re a muppet.
“Is it because your vocabulary is so limited that you have no other way of expressing your anger or frustration?”
Yup. It’s the best way for me to bring myself down to your level.
Muppet.
“Is it a childrens puppet fixation coupled with a nervous tick and these muppet interjections are therefore involuntary?”
Probly.
“Or is it some crazy idea that the word will cut me to the quick? Maybe I’m missing something and the word muppet is some kind of Muslim insult like pig.”
Nah, it’s cuz you’re a muppet, pure and simple.
“You are truly a troubled individual.”
Thank you, Sigmund.
Pathetic. If that’s the best you can do my work is done.
Funny how you always expect an answer from me but refuse to answer any of my points.
Your work is done?
What work?
You’re a muppet.
I sort of feel a little angry with you for brgnniig that into my life. I feel that was an unnecessary trauma of something I had pushed into the far recess of my memory and you rip it to the front like a dog rips a babies .ahh you know what I mean I refuse to accept the challenge and I’m going to be humming that bloody tune for days now.